CNN "Anderson Cooper 360" - Transcript: Interview with Adam Schiff

Interview

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COOPER: Joining us now, House Select Committee member and House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff, Democrat of California, author of "Midnight in Washington: How We Almost Lost our Democracy and Still Could."

Congressman Schiff, what does it say to you that these Republican Members of Congress that we just heard from are basically saying it is okay to ignore a congressional subpoena? Even if you don't think Steve Bannon did anything, even if you don't think this whole thing should go forward, this is a lawful congressional subpoena. There are Members of Congress, for them to not even back up, congressional power is extraordinary.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): It is extraordinary, and it really defies the expectation of the founders, that members of the Congressional branch would defend their own institution. That ambition could be made to check ambition. But here, they are willing to sacrifice the Congress, they're willing to sacrifice our system of checks and balances in the service of this unethical former President.

And it is -- you know, it is really quite shocking. When you listen to Steve Scalise, their number two, the G.O.P. number two member of the House, just a week ago, couldn't admit that the election wasn't stolen. No wonder he doesn't want the contempt to go forward. You know, he feels as evidently the Republican leadership does, it's more important to support the cult of Donald Trump than it is to defend their own democracy.

And it is this abdication of their Oath of Office that has our democracy on such fragile ground.

COOPER: I mean, I just -- I'm just struck by his use of the term "witch hunt," you know, it is just kind of pathetic that he has to kind of even use the language of the former President, I guess, in the hopes that he'll get an "Atta boy" from the President. Maybe he will get, you know, the Holy Grail, an actual call or you know, a special message from the President, the former President saying, you know, "Great." It's just kind of pathetic.

I mean, after the full House vote tomorrow, it'll almost certainly get referred to the Justice Department. What do you think Attorney General Garland is going to do?

SCHIFF: I think he will present it to the grand jury as the statute says. He has a duty to do so. And I think all the signs have been very positive. The Justice Department has made available top former Justice Department officials without asserting any kind of privilege. They have made accessible records from the National Archives belonging to the prior administration without any assertion of executive privilege.

The President himself I think made it very clear that those who violate the law should be prosecuted. And in my view, this will be an early test of our democracy. Is it recovering? Is it still true in America that no one is above the law? Because if that is true, you know, Anderson, that if any one of my constituents back in California were to ignore a subpoena and simply failed to appear, there would be an arrest warrant for them very, very soon thereafter. COOPER: Select Committee Vice Chair Liz Cheney said last night, quote, "Based on the Committee's investigation, it appears that Mr. Bannon has substantial advanced knowledge of the plans for January 6th, and likely had an important role in formulating those plans," end quote.

I mean, aside from what Bannon said on his podcast, the day before the insurrection, which, you know, I guess you could interpret it as "all hell is going to break loose," you know, "people are going to be really upset, they're going to, you know, just be upset." And ignoring what's in the Bob Woodward and Robert Costa book, "Peril" about Bannon and being at the Willard Hotel on January 5th with other Trump allies, including Giuliani in a war room type meeting.

Does your Committee have more information beyond that on Bannon?

SCHIFF: You know, I can't comment on what we have that is not a matter of public record. But I think certainly, someone that was as close to the President is as close to the President as Steve Bannon, who was organizing at the Willard Hotel efforts to persuade lawmakers to decertify the election and overturn the results, and who made those comments, which on their surface seem to predict exactly what happened.

The fact that he was telling people also, I think on that radio show or podcast that if they felt that they had missed out on the American Revolution, here was an opportunity for them to participate in one. If there's an innocent explanation, then he should step forward and give it. The fact though that he is fighting this, that the former President is fighting this, I think speaks to his consciousness of guilt.

COOPER: So Congressman Jim Jordan says he can't recall how many times he spoke with the former President on January 6th. He's been kind of all over the map on that one. Does the Committee want to talk to Congressman Jordan?

[20:25:07]

SCHIFF: Well, I'm not in a position to announce future witnesses, but I can tell you this, on a very nonpartisan basis, I think every member of our Committee is determined to go wherever the evidence lies, to Members of Congress, to the former White House -- anywhere, we need to fill up the public record and expose all of the events that led to January 6th.

Our whole goal is to write a set of recommendations to protect the country going forward, and if Jordan has information or anybody else, we won't shy away merely because they are Members of Congress.

COOPER: Just lastly, you said that the big black box in all of this is what the President's role was. You've also echoed Chairman Thompson's comments that no one is off the table for a subpoena. At what point would you subpoena the former President himself?

SCHIFF: You know, I think before you take a step like that, you want to gather as much information and evidence as you can, because you're going to get one crack at it. And so, I think we have a lot of work to do before we make the decision about whether we take that step. And certainly before we would take that step.

So I still consider us, you know, frankly, although we're moving with incredible speed to be early in the investigation, and I would want to know what documents we would present to a key witness. What other testimony we would be aware of before we question the key witness. So, I don't see that happening until later in the investigation, if the Chairman will make the decision to go there.

COOPER: Adam Schiff, appreciate your time. Thank you.

SCHIFF: Thank you.

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